Good Morning, Oppo

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 05/22/2018 at 09:15 • Filed to: good morning oppo

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Whittier, California. Anybody care to guess the year? I have no idea.

pip bip - choose Corrour > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 09:19

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1912?

1911?

1910?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 09:24

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It’s not a wood firewall Model T, it’s a somewhat early metal one. ca. 1915, by my guess.

At least, I’m pretty sure it’s a T by the hood profile, size, fenders...

pip bip - choose Corrour > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 09:27

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odd for that pic to be in the USA , as the car in the foreground is RHD

unless it was common back then, photo isn’t reversed as there is a sign on the back wall saying ‘Gasoline for sale here’

ttyymmnn > pip bip - choose Corrour 05/22/2018 at 09:29

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I don’t think LHD was standard in the US for quite a while.

ttyymmnn > pip bip - choose Corrour 05/22/2018 at 09:30

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http://www.lostinthepond.com/2013/03/fact-american-steering-wheels-havent.html

Ash78, voting early and often > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 09:31

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If you had said Williamsburg, Brooklyn, my guess would be 2016.

ttyymmnn > pip bip - choose Corrour 05/22/2018 at 09:33

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The more I look at it, I wonder if it is reversed. The site where I found it isn’t exactly a scholarly history site. And it’s possible that the words are painted on a window, in which case it would appear backwards from the inside. In that case, it’s definitely reversed.

boredalways > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 09:33

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Nothing to see here

fintail > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 09:35

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I’ll guess 1910-12 or so. I see a car in the background with a front door, those became a thing around that time.

pip bip - choose Corrour > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 09:35

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so much for that theory then.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 09:43

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I was prepared to concede that it might not be a T, because the firewall isn’t *exactly* like anything I’ve been able to find, and on the strength of the side of the steering wheel (Ts were LHD), but your point about the window is a good one, and the car on the near left has a door opening to the left side of the car. If it were a body with only one side for entry, it would be the other. Also, T engines have the exhaust and intake on the other side, which would be consistent with being reversed.

fintail > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/22/2018 at 09:54

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I think the car in the foreground is larger than a T. Also, don’t brass Ts have flat top front fenders?

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > fintail 05/22/2018 at 09:58

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It depends.

The single biggest thing that’s throwing me is that the firewall draft piece is convex instead of concave like virtually every teens vehicle I can think of. It also looks like it may have a set of vent doors down low on either side. I don’t know if it’s a coachbuilder piece or whether I just haven’t dipped the right well yet.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 10:02

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It may be something quite a bit more up-market than a T:

1912 Pierce Arrow, very possibly. Found a match for the weird qualities of the firewall.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > fintail 05/22/2018 at 10:03

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Very possibly a Pierce Arrow:

fintail > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/22/2018 at 10:05

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I think that’s a 15-16 car that has been updated - I don’t think they came like that from the factory. I don’t think the pictured car is a T though, it seems bigger and fancier.

The Pierce-Arrow is a good guess. As so many makes from that era were gone by the 20s, it can be difficult.

ttyymmnn > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/22/2018 at 10:07

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Although, I just noticed a box in the back left part of the photo. I can’t read it, but it looks like it is not reversed, as the larger letters, presumably capitals, are on the left.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/22/2018 at 10:09

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Engine is also “handed” correctly to the steering wheel, and the apparent many-bladed fan would be a match:

ttyymmnn > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/22/2018 at 10:09

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I’ve been wondering if its a coachworks and not a repair shop.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > fintail 05/22/2018 at 10:11

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Yeah, on reviewing the engine, the firewall seal design, the number of blades on the engine fan, and the fact that it looks like the car has a spare carrier (?) on the rh fender, I’m prepared to say Pierce Arrow. That “bulged” firewall is too much of an oddity to have another explanation for.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > fintail 05/22/2018 at 10:16

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Note also that the windshield mounts in some unorthodox way, with hidden fasteners, and that the top has little outcrops or stobs mounted on the door pillars to support its posts. Both those things are an A+ match to what I’m seeing in pictures of 1912 PA touring cars. I’m pretty convinced.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 10:21

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No, for the purposes of the 1912 Pierce Arrow it’s definitely a repair shop, because you can see the removed mangled fender back on the right. As well as one of the huge headlights (another point for Pierce Arrow).

Not only that, but a wheel and what appears to be the front axle, and the cowl and radiator are both removed.

Now, if this were a coachwork, I could see circumstances in which the body and upholstery would be on a bare frame, but a worker’s light on the engine, radiator removed, and yet one fender is on? Inconceivable. They’d be fitting the radiator first, then the fender to the radiator and body.

fintail > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/22/2018 at 10:23

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Sounds logical to me. As you also mentioned, the rounded/bulged firewall seems unique. That’s also a larger fancy car. Combine it all, and it makes sense.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > pip bip - choose Corrour 05/22/2018 at 10:32

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At least far enough into 1912 for the owner of a very expensive 1912 Pierce Arrow to have gotten it in a fender bender.

ttyymmnn > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/22/2018 at 10:41

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Good explanation. Thanks.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 10:42

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There may be a Model T in the picture after all:

ca. 1912 Model T speedster.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 11:42

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I think I’ve got an ID for the car on the immediate left as well.

I think it’s a 1910 Buick, since I’ve found *exactly zero* other matches for the rear entrance of the body designed this way, slightly twisted flat fender, and design of seats.

ttyymmnn > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 05/22/2018 at 11:59

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I’d say you nailed it. I’m glad I was able to provide you with something to do other than work this morning!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 05/22/2018 at 12:12

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I’ll do you one better. The car in the background (near, because the one on its other side is almost completely obstructed) may also be a ~1910 Buick, but a “big Buick”.

Observe the front footwell cutout shape, the odd jog in the rear fender, the weird “detail block” on the top of the rear door, etc.

The control levers on the right also appear correct:

Therefore, of the five cars in the shop, we have Pierce Arrow, Buick, Buick, Ford (shop toy?), and unknown. Definitely an upscale shop, in case the PA alone didn’t make that obvious.